Mail Archives: geda-help/2019/10/18/20:57:26
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| In-Reply-To: | <20191018223829.6ad6ca73fb2d77c5f389399e@gmail.com>
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| From: | "Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>
|
| Date: | Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:12:00 +1030
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| Message-ID: | <CAHUm0tN0OBkdBUtREz59_dXFd+kCcC9RkL5XtCxHNpsWeVoaSw@mail.gmail.com>
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| Subject: | Re: [geda-help] Question: New User - How To Create Very Simple Unique
|
| PCB With No Components
|
| To: | "Vladimir Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>
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| Reply-To: | geda-help AT delorie DOT com
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--000000000000b84853059538b836
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
The PCB thickness is usually selected at the time of ordering the board
from the manufacturer.
Routine FR4 is 1.6mm thick, with 1 or 2 oz per square foot of copper for
the front and back planes.
The next option up from double sided is 4 layer boards, which are quite a
bit more expensive.
My approach to your board stack up would be to make two double sided boards
which have fairly full copper coverage on their bottom layers and then get
stacked one on top of the other, with the full copper planes outermost. You
can then make any holes in the two boards correspond for all the way
through perforations, or not, for part way perforations into the middle
layer(s) section for access to any trackwork.
Attention to registration marks, (maybe using some drill holes for
mountung hardware for this) would be important.
Apertures on a board are defined with the outline layer, and need to take
account of a milling cutter's typically 0.8mm diameter, and the centres of
the lines on the outline layer for apertures define the path of the
cutter's outer radius.
If you need slots, or windowing of solder mask layers, it may be easier to
do the board in pcb-rnd, which supports slots, as well as arbitrary
negative apertures on the solder mask layer, which may be necessary,
depending on your plans for exposure of the inner and outer layer copper
areas.
You could do most of the above as a four layer board, by
censoring/eliminating one of the internal layers, but you may be paying a
lot to do this, and may struggle to get the openings you want communicated
effectively to the board fabricator.
Regards,
Erich
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:34 John L. Males (jlmales AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-help AT delorie DOT com], <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hello,
>
> This is my first posting here. I do not know if the mailing
> list will automatically eMail me a reply. I have looked at the
> mailing list commands and options I cannot find if and how I
> may set if replies to me or others can be set.
>
> I am new to PCB software, but have reasonable average
> electronics skills over a number of years.
>
> I have a simple and unique challenge I have tried many different
> ways to figure out. I have done alot of internet searching,
> looked at many tutorials, and tried using PCB based on
> tutorials and my own exploring about PCB to find how I do this
> simple and unique PCB.
>
> I need to create a PCB that has a copper plane on top and
> bottom of the PCB. That simple. No components. It is likely
> via a third layer between the top and bottom copper planes I
> will want traces out to holes I may make as solder tabs or us a
> connector of some type. The reason for the trace connections
> as a third layer is to ensure the traces do not short with the
> aluminum parts metal part the PCB has to be mounted to directly
> at each end of the PCB.
>
> Then I will need to create a set of holes in the parallel
> copper planes area whose sole purpose is to let air pass between
> and not be a connection between the top and bottom copper
> planes.
>
> If I need to specify a PCB thickness then how I do so. So far
> I have not been able to find a setting/preference for the PCB
> thickness to do so.
>
> The how to do the connector and/or solder tab is not critical
> to the primary question. I will try to figure that out after I
> have the most important part of the PCB as noted above done in
> PCB.
>
> I will need to do a second PCB, but it will have lots of
> components on it. I would need to enter the schematic first of
> curse. I suspect I will manage with the help examples I have
> already read and will read again when I am ready to create a
> PCB from the schematic.
>
> If there is any missing part of the information to my core
> question of copper planes on top/bottom and holes in the
> copper plane that do not connect the top and bottom copper
> planes feel free to ask or comment on.
>
>
> John L. Males
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada
> 18 October 2019 18:38 -0400 EDT
>
>
> ================================================================
>
> 2019-10-18 22:05:20+0000-UTC Time: 1571436320 PC/System time
>
> 18 Oct 22:05:20 ntpdate[85789]: ntpdate 4.2.8p12-a (1)
>
> 18 Oct 22:05:35 ntpdate[87775]: step time server 206.108.0.131
> offset -0.004716 sec
>
> FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE #0 r349903: Thu Jul 11
> 16:13:47 UTC 2019
> root AT releng2 DOT nyi DOT freebsd DOT org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
>
> (Work in progress alternative to Linux Kernel of its own right,
> Debian, and
> other Linux based Kernel distributions determined.)
>
> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
> Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class
> CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz
> K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
> (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @
> 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M
> CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU)
>
> dev.cpu.0.temperature: 71.0C
> dev.cpu.1.temperature: 70.0C
> dev.cpu.2.temperature: 66.0C
> dev.cpu.3.temperature: 66.0C
> hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 72.1C
>
> vmstat -s:
>
> 128476253 cpu context switches
> 4928508 device interrupts
> 661878 software interrupts
> 41825629 traps
> 346413636 system calls
> 27 kernel threads created
> 3000 fork() calls
> 793 vfork() calls
> 0 rfork() calls
> 0 swap pager pageins
> 0 swap pager pages paged in
> 0 swap pager pageouts
> 0 swap pager pages paged out
> 8688 vnode pager pageins
> 120478 vnode pager pages paged in
> 322 vnode pager pageouts
> 3527 vnode pager pages paged out
> 3 page daemon wakeups
> 19153450 pages examined by the page daemon
> 0 clean page reclamation shortfalls
> 198910 pages reactivated by the page daemon
> 502073 copy-on-write faults
> 9226 copy-on-write optimized faults
> 27520777 zero fill pages zeroed
> 24413 zero fill pages prezeroed
> 1622 intransit blocking page faults
> 42301697 total VM faults taken
> 12576 page faults requiring I/O
> 0 pages affected by kernel thread creation
> 357307 pages affected by fork()
> 28026 pages affected by vfork()
> 0 pages affected by rfork()
> 30941382 pages freed
> 89018 pages freed by daemon
> 13777017 pages freed by exiting processes
> 470801 pages active
> 1014759 pages inactive
> 191320 pages in the laundry queue
> 234660 pages wired down
> 96191 pages free
> 4096 bytes per page
> 3108988 total name lookups
> cache hits (93% pos + 4% neg) system 0% per-directory
> deletions 0%, falsehits 0%, toolong 0%
>
> Boot time : 1571414099
>
> procs memory page disks
> faults cpu0 cpu1 cpu2 cpu3 r b w avm
> fre flt re pi po fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us sy
> id us sy id us sy id us sy id 0 0 0 31449076 384704 1902 9
> 0 0 1391 861 0 0 222 15578 5778 12 8 80 14 4 82 14
> 4 82 14 4 82
>
> memory info:
>
> real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB)
> avail memory = 8166465536 (7788 MB)
>
> last pid: 92816; load averages: 0.46, 0.66, 0.83 up
> 0+06:10:37 22:05:36 56 processes: 1 running, 55 sleeping
>
> Mem: 1840M Active, 3964M Inact, 747M Laundry, 917M Wired, 474M
> Buf, 375M Free Swap: 48G Total, 48G Free
>
> hw.physmem: 8463925248
> hw.usermem: 7502598144
> hw.realmem: 8589934592
>
> total used free shared
> buffers cached Mem: 8030732 3587088
> 4443644 0 0 0 Swap:
> 50331644 0 50331644
>
> swapinfo:
>
> Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity
> /dev/ada0s1b 50331644 0 50331644 0%
>
> vmstat:
>
> procs memory page disks
> faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po
> fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us sy id 1 0 0 31449076
> 384420 1902 9 0 0 1392 861 0 0 222 15579 5778 14
> 5 82
>
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>
--000000000000b84853059538b836
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">The PCB thickness is usually selected at the time of orde=
ring the board from the manufacturer.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">Routine FR4 is 1.6mm thick, with 1 or 2 oz per square foot of cop=
per for the front and back planes.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div di=
r=3D"auto">The next option up from double sided is 4 layer boards, which ar=
e quite a bit more expensive.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">My approach to your board stack up would be to make two double =
sided boards which have fairly full copper coverage on their bottom layers =
and then get stacked one on top of the other, with the full copper planes o=
utermost. You can then make any holes in the two boards correspond for all =
the way through perforations, or not, for part way perforations into the mi=
ddle layer(s) section for access to any trackwork.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Attention to registration marks, (maybe=C2=
=A0 using some drill holes for mountung hardware for this) would be importa=
nt.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Apertures on a board=
are defined with the outline layer, and need to take account of a milling =
cutter's typically 0.8mm diameter, and the centres of the lines on the =
outline layer for apertures define the path of the cutter's outer radiu=
s.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">If you need slots, or=
windowing of solder mask layers, it may be easier to do the board in pcb-r=
nd, which supports slots, as well as arbitrary negative apertures on the so=
lder mask layer, which may be necessary, depending on your plans for exposu=
re of the inner and outer layer copper areas.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">You could do most of the above as a four layer board,=
by censoring/eliminating one of the internal layers, but you may be paying=
a lot to do this, and may struggle to get the openings you want communicat=
ed effectively to the board fabricator.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Erich</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"=
gmail_attr">On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:34 John L. Males (<a href=3D"mailto:jlma=
les AT gmail DOT com">jlmales AT gmail DOT com</a>) [via <a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delo=
rie.com">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>], <<a href=3D"mailto:geda-help AT delori=
e.com">geda-help AT delorie DOT com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
This is my first posting here.=C2=A0 I do not know if the mailing<br>
list will automatically eMail me a reply.=C2=A0 I have looked at the<br>
mailing list commands and options I cannot find if and how I<br>
may set if replies to me or others can be set.<br>
<br>
I am new to PCB software, but have reasonable average<br>
electronics skills over a number of years.<br>
<br>
I have a simple and unique challenge I have tried many different<br>
ways to figure out.=C2=A0 I have done alot of internet searching,<br>
looked at many tutorials, and tried using PCB based on<br>
tutorials and my own exploring about PCB to find how I do this<br>
simple and unique PCB. <br>
<br>
I need to create a PCB that has a copper plane on top and<br>
bottom of the PCB.=C2=A0 That simple.=C2=A0 No components.=C2=A0 It is like=
ly<br>
via a third layer between the top and bottom copper planes I<br>
will want traces out to holes I may make as solder tabs or us a<br>
connector of some type.=C2=A0 The reason for the trace connections<br>
as a third layer is to ensure the traces do not short with the<br>
aluminum parts metal part the PCB has to be mounted to directly<br>
at each end of the PCB.<br>
<br>
Then I will need to create a set of holes in the parallel<br>
copper planes area whose sole purpose is to let air pass between<br>
and not be a connection between the top and bottom copper<br>
planes.<br>
<br>
If I need to specify a PCB thickness then how I do so.=C2=A0 So far<br>
I have not been able to find a setting/preference for the PCB<br>
thickness to do so.<br>
<br>
The how to do the connector and/or solder tab is not critical<br>
to the primary question.=C2=A0 I will try to figure that out after I<br>
have the most important part of the PCB as noted above done in<br>
PCB.<br>
<br>
I will need to do a second PCB, but it will have lots of<br>
components on it.=C2=A0 I would need to enter the schematic first of<br>
curse. I suspect I will manage with the help examples I have<br>
already read and will read again when I am ready to create a<br>
PCB from the schematic.<br>
<br>
If there is any missing part of the information to my core<br>
question of copper planes on top/bottom and holes in the<br>
copper plane that do not connect the top and bottom copper<br>
planes feel free to ask or comment on. <br>
<br>
<br>
John L. Males<br>
Toronto, Ontario<br>
Canada<br>
18 October 2019 18:38 -0400 EDT<br>
<br>
<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
2019-10-18 22:05:20+0000-UTC Time: 1571436320 PC/System time<br>
<br>
18 Oct 22:05:20 ntpdate[85789]: ntpdate 4.2.8p12-a (1)<br>
<br>
18 Oct 22:05:35 ntpdate[87775]: step time server 206.108.0.131<br>
offset -0.004716 sec<br>
<br>
FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE #0 r349903: Thu Jul 11<br>
16:13:47 UTC 2019<br>
root AT releng2 DOT nyi DOT freebsd DOT org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC <br>
<br>
(Work in progress alternative to Linux Kernel of its own right,<br>
=C2=A0Debian, and<br>
=C2=A0other Linux based Kernel distributions determined.)<br>
<br>
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz<br>
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class<br>
CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz<br>
K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz<br>
(1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @<br>
1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M<br>
CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU)<br>
<br>
dev.cpu.0.temperature: 71.0C<br>
dev.cpu.1.temperature: 70.0C<br>
dev.cpu.2.temperature: 66.0C<br>
dev.cpu.3.temperature: 66.0C<br>
hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 72.1C<br>
<br>
vmstat -s:<br>
<br>
128476253 cpu context switches<br>
=C2=A0 4928508 device interrupts<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0661878 software interrupts<br>
=C2=A041825629 traps<br>
346413636 system calls<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A027 kernel threads created<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03000=C2=A0 fork() calls<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 793 vfork() calls<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 rfork() calls<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 swap pager pageins<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 swap pager pages paged in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 swap pager pageouts<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 swap pager pages paged out<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08688 vnode pager pageins<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0120478 vnode pager pages paged in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 322 vnode pager pageouts<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A03527 vnode pager pages paged out<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 3 page daemon wakeups<br>
=C2=A019153450 pages examined by the page daemon<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 clean page reclamation shortfalls<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0198910 pages reactivated by the page daemon<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0502073 copy-on-write faults<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A09226 copy-on-write optimized faults<br>
=C2=A027520777 zero fill pages zeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 24413 zero fill pages prezeroed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A01622 intransit blocking page faults<br>
=C2=A042301697 total VM faults taken<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 12576 page faults requiring I/O<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 pages affected by kernel thread creation<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0357307 pages affected by=C2=A0 fork()<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 28026 pages affected by vfork()<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 pages affected by rfork()<br>
=C2=A030941382 pages freed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 89018 pages freed by daemon<br>
=C2=A013777017 pages freed by exiting processes<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0470801 pages active<br>
=C2=A0 1014759 pages inactive<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0191320 pages in the laundry queue<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0234660 pages wired down<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 96191 pages free<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A04096 bytes per page<br>
=C2=A0 3108988 total name lookups<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 cache hits (93% pos + 4% neg) system 0% =
per-directory<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 deletions 0%, falsehits 0%, toolong 0%<b=
r>
<br>
Boot time : 1571414099<br>
<br>
procs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0memory=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 page=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disks<br>
faults=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 cpu0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cpu1=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0cpu2=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cpu3 r b w=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avm<br>
fre=C2=A0 flt=C2=A0 re=C2=A0 pi=C2=A0 po=C2=A0 =C2=A0 fr=C2=A0 =C2=A0sr ad0=
pa0=C2=A0 =C2=A0in=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 cs us sy<br>
id us sy id us sy id us sy id 0 0 0 31449076=C2=A0 384704 1902=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
9<br>
0=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 1391=C2=A0 861=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 222 =
15578=C2=A0 5778 12=C2=A0 8 80 14=C2=A0 4 82 14<br>
4 82 14=C2=A0 4 82<br>
<br>
memory info:<br>
<br>
real memory=C2=A0 =3D 8589934592 (8192 MB)<br>
avail memory =3D 8166465536 (7788 MB)<br>
<br>
last pid: 92816;=C2=A0 load averages:=C2=A0 0.46,=C2=A0 0.66,=C2=A0 0.83=C2=
=A0 up<br>
0+06:10:37=C2=A0 =C2=A0 22:05:36 56 processes:=C2=A0 1 running, 55 sleeping=
<br>
<br>
Mem: 1840M Active, 3964M Inact, 747M Laundry, 917M Wired, 474M<br>
Buf, 375M Free Swap: 48G Total, 48G Free<br>
<br>
hw.physmem: 8463925248<br>
hw.usermem: 7502598144<br>
hw.realmem: 8589934592<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0total=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0used=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0free=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0shared<br>
buffers=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cached Mem:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A08030732=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 3587088<br>
4443644=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 Swap:<br>
50331644=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0=C2=A0 =C2=A050331644<br>
<br>
swapinfo:<br>
<br>
Device=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 1K-blocks=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Used=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Avail Capacity<br>
/dev/ada0s1b=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A050331644=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 0 50331=
644=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A00%<br>
<br>
vmstat:<br>
<br>
procs=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0memory=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 page=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 disks<br>
faults=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0cpu r b w=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0avm=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0fre=C2=A0 flt=C2=A0 re=C2=A0 pi=C2=A0 po<br>
fr=C2=A0 =C2=A0sr ad0 pa0=C2=A0 =C2=A0in=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sy=C2=A0 =C2=A0 cs us=
sy id 1 0 0 31449076<br>
384420 1902=C2=A0 =C2=A09=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 1392=C2=A0 861=
=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 =C2=A00=C2=A0 222 15579=C2=A0 5778 14<br>
5 82<br>
<br>
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