Mail Archives: geda-help/2019/10/18/22:15:39
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| Fri, 18 Oct 2019 19:00:17 -0700 (PDT)
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| Date: | Sat, 19 Oct 2019 02:00:02 +0000
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| From: | "John L. Males (jlmales AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com>
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| To: | geda-help AT delorie DOT com
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| Subject: | Re: [geda-help] Question: New User - How To Create Very Simple
|
| Unique PCB With No Components
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| Message-Id: | <20191019020002.088a8f4fa249e251d11adfe5@gmail.com>
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| <CAHUm0tN0OBkdBUtREz59_dXFd+kCcC9RkL5XtCxHNpsWeVoaSw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
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| Organization: | Toronto, Ontario
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Eric,
Thanks for your reply.
I hope I am replying in the correct manner for the mailing list.
I left out some elements on purpose not aware of possible
suggestion to stack the PCBs.
I cannot stack two PCBs for thickness reasons that are actually
specific for the this simple PCB board. The thickness of the
board will need to be about 0.79mm. As indicated PCB thickness
is specified when board is made and not in the PCB software.
I thought is would be simple to have a copper plane on both
sides of board and to include holes in this simple PCB. The
simple PCB board is a capacitor based on copper surface area
minus the holes that need to be there to allow air to
freely move due to the plates on either side of the simple PCB
I want to make. The PCB I want to make needs a 0.79mm gap
between the two copper planes of the PCB, ergo a PCB
thickness of about 0.79mm.
The copper area will be about the middle 80% (off top of my
head). I have not calculated the exact surface area of the two
copper planes yet. The minimum board span will be 4 inches
minus about 1.25 inches for the combined sides the board is
mounted on and the gap of the moving plates this PCB will be
sandwiched between.
I indicated minimum board span as I may want to add about 0.75
inches to one side of the PCB length to overhang on one side of
the span points. This to allow easy access and clearance for
connectors if I choose to design for connectors. A soldered to
board wires via solder pads that will not need any board
overhang.
In essence I need two layers, but thought it might be useful
for third layer that runs inside the board that brings traces
out from each copper plane. The intent was to make it easy for
the lead out traces not to short on the aluminum block at the
end where the connections are made to the PCB via wires or
connectors.
Maybe I have to consider adding thin coat of varathane to
insulate the lower trace to a top trace transition for
connection of wires via pad or connectors. The top side of the
board is not in contact with any metal. Might that present a
way to transition the lower plane of copper to an upper trace?
Is a via the correct term/approach to allow? I can ensure the
is a bit of gap and enough clearance from the aluminum
mounting block for a via or what it needed to transition a
bottom trace/copper to upper trace for solder pad or connector.
If it is useful I could see if I can create an image of both
sides of board with a drawing program. I am not certain if I
can, but I can see if that helps clarify my attempt to
articulate what I am trying to do.
John L. Males
Toronto, Ontario
Canada
18 October 2019 22:00 -0400 EDT
================================================================
2019-10-19 01:25:11+0000-UTC Time: 1571448311 PC/System time
19 Oct 01:25:11 ntpdate[15820]: ntpdate 4.2.8p12-a (1)
19 Oct 01:25:26 ntpdate[17068]: step time server 206.108.0.132
offset 0.001708 sec
FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE #0 r349903: Thu Jul 11
16:13:47 UTC 2019
root AT releng2 DOT nyi DOT freebsd DOT org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
(Work in progress alternative to Linux Kernel of its own right,
Debian, and
other Linux based Kernel distributions determined.)
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class
CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz
K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
(1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @
1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M
CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU)
dev.cpu.0.temperature: 69.0C
dev.cpu.1.temperature: 68.0C
dev.cpu.2.temperature: 64.0C
dev.cpu.3.temperature: 64.0C
hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 69.1C
vmstat -s:
188317092 cpu context switches
7044759 device interrupts
1014980 software interrupts
51267914 traps
479658084 system calls
27 kernel threads created
3253 fork() calls
1051 vfork() calls
0 rfork() calls
0 swap pager pageins
0 swap pager pages paged in
0 swap pager pageouts
0 swap pager pages paged out
8798 vnode pager pageins
122396 vnode pager pages paged in
322 vnode pager pageouts
3527 vnode pager pages paged out
11 page daemon wakeups
29799537 pages examined by the page daemon
0 clean page reclamation shortfalls
369964 pages reactivated by the page daemon
528547 copy-on-write faults
9933 copy-on-write optimized faults
33166324 zero fill pages zeroed
25991 zero fill pages prezeroed
1622 intransit blocking page faults
52124252 total VM faults taken
12676 page faults requiring I/O
0 pages affected by kernel thread creation
373301 pages affected by fork()
36978 pages affected by vfork()
0 pages affected by rfork()
37526757 pages freed
308705 pages freed by daemon
17242344 pages freed by exiting processes
473888 pages active
1014069 pages inactive
208348 pages in the laundry queue
250554 pages wired down
60872 pages free
4096 bytes per page
3737378 total name lookups
cache hits (93% pos + 4% neg) system 0% per-directory
deletions 0%, falsehits 0%, toolong 0%
Boot time : 1571414099
procs memory page disks
faults cpu0 cpu1 cpu2 cpu3 r b w avm
fre flt re pi po fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us sy
id us sy id us sy id us sy id 0 0 0 32149200 243428 1523 11
0 0 1096 871 0 0 206 14014 5502 11 7 82 12 4 84 12
3 84 12 3 84
memory info:
real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB)
avail memory = 8166465536 (7788 MB)
last pid: 23225; load averages: 1.41, 0.92, 0.69 up
0+09:30:27 01:25:26 60 processes: 1 running, 59 sleeping
Mem: 1852M Active, 3961M Inact, 814M Laundry, 979M Wired, 510M
Buf, 237M Free Swap: 48G Total, 48G Free
hw.physmem: 8463925248
hw.usermem: 7437496320
hw.realmem: 8589934592
total used free shared
buffers cached Mem: 8030732 3731096
4299636 0 0 0 Swap:
50331644 0 50331644
swapinfo:
Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity
/dev/ada0s1b 50331644 0 50331644 0%
vmstat:
procs memory page disks
faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po
fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us sy id 0 0 0 32149200
243400 1523 11 0 0 1096 871 0 0 206 14014 5502 12
4 84
Message replied to:
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2019 11:12:00 +1030
From: "Erich Heinzle (a1039181 AT gmail DOT com) [via
geda-help AT delorie DOT com]" <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> To: "Vladimir
Zhbanov (vzhbanov AT gmail DOT com) [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com]"
<geda-help AT delorie DOT com> Subject: Re: [geda-help] Question: New
User - How To Create Very Simple Unique PCB With No Components
> The PCB thickness is usually selected at the time of ordering
> the board from the manufacturer.
>
> Routine FR4 is 1.6mm thick, with 1 or 2 oz per square foot of
> copper for the front and back planes.
>
> The next option up from double sided is 4 layer boards, which
> are quite a bit more expensive.
>
> My approach to your board stack up would be to make two
> double sided boards which have fairly full copper coverage on
> their bottom layers and then get stacked one on top of the
> other, with the full copper planes outermost. You can then
> make any holes in the two boards correspond for all the way
> through perforations, or not, for part way perforations into
> the middle layer(s) section for access to any trackwork.
>
> Attention to registration marks, (maybe using some drill
> holes for mountung hardware for this) would be important.
>
> Apertures on a board are defined with the outline layer, and
> need to take account of a milling cutter's typically 0.8mm
> diameter, and the centres of the lines on the outline layer
> for apertures define the path of the cutter's outer radius.
>
> If you need slots, or windowing of solder mask layers, it may
> be easier to do the board in pcb-rnd, which supports slots,
> as well as arbitrary negative apertures on the solder mask
> layer, which may be necessary, depending on your plans for
> exposure of the inner and outer layer copper areas.
>
> You could do most of the above as a four layer board, by
> censoring/eliminating one of the internal layers, but you may
> be paying a lot to do this, and may struggle to get the
> openings you want communicated effectively to the board
> fabricator.
>
> Regards,
>
> Erich
>
> On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:34 John L. Males (jlmales AT gmail DOT com)
> [via geda-help AT delorie DOT com], <geda-help AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is my first posting here. I do not know if the mailing
> > list will automatically eMail me a reply. I have looked at
> > the mailing list commands and options I cannot find if and
> > how I may set if replies to me or others can be set.
> >
> > I am new to PCB software, but have reasonable average
> > electronics skills over a number of years.
> >
> > I have a simple and unique challenge I have tried many
> > different ways to figure out. I have done alot of internet
> > searching, looked at many tutorials, and tried using PCB
> > based on tutorials and my own exploring about PCB to find
> > how I do this simple and unique PCB.
> >
> > I need to create a PCB that has a copper plane on top and
> > bottom of the PCB. That simple. No components. It is
> > likely via a third layer between the top and bottom copper
> > planes I will want traces out to holes I may make as solder
> > tabs or us a connector of some type. The reason for the
> > trace connections as a third layer is to ensure the traces
> > do not short with the aluminum parts metal part the PCB has
> > to be mounted to directly at each end of the PCB.
> >
> > Then I will need to create a set of holes in the parallel
> > copper planes area whose sole purpose is to let air pass
> > between and not be a connection between the top and bottom
> > copper planes.
> >
> > If I need to specify a PCB thickness then how I do so. So
> > far I have not been able to find a setting/preference for
> > the PCB thickness to do so.
> >
> > The how to do the connector and/or solder tab is not
> > critical to the primary question. I will try to figure
> > that out after I have the most important part of the PCB as
> > noted above done in PCB.
> >
> > I will need to do a second PCB, but it will have lots of
> > components on it. I would need to enter the schematic
> > first of curse. I suspect I will manage with the help
> > examples I have already read and will read again when I am
> > ready to create a PCB from the schematic.
> >
> > If there is any missing part of the information to my core
> > question of copper planes on top/bottom and holes in the
> > copper plane that do not connect the top and bottom copper
> > planes feel free to ask or comment on.
> >
> >
> > John L. Males
> > Toronto, Ontario
> > Canada
> > 18 October 2019 18:38 -0400 EDT
> >
> >
> > ================================================================
> >
> > 2019-10-18 22:05:20+0000-UTC Time: 1571436320 PC/System time
> >
> > 18 Oct 22:05:20 ntpdate[85789]: ntpdate 4.2.8p12-a (1)
> >
> > 18 Oct 22:05:35 ntpdate[87775]: step time server
> > 206.108.0.131 offset -0.004716 sec
> >
> > FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE FreeBSD 11.3-STABLE #0 r349903: Thu Jul
> > 11 16:13:47 UTC 2019
> > root AT releng2 DOT nyi DOT freebsd DOT org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
> >
> > (Work in progress alternative to Linux Kernel of its own
> > right, Debian, and
> > other Linux based Kernel distributions determined.)
> >
> > Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
> > Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz
> > K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz
> > (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @
> > 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R) Core(TM)
> > i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU) Intel(R)
> > Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz (1396.86-MHz K8-class CPU)
> >
> > dev.cpu.0.temperature: 71.0C
> > dev.cpu.1.temperature: 70.0C
> > dev.cpu.2.temperature: 66.0C
> > dev.cpu.3.temperature: 66.0C
> > hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 72.1C
> >
> > vmstat -s:
> >
> > 128476253 cpu context switches
> > 4928508 device interrupts
> > 661878 software interrupts
> > 41825629 traps
> > 346413636 system calls
> > 27 kernel threads created
> > 3000 fork() calls
> > 793 vfork() calls
> > 0 rfork() calls
> > 0 swap pager pageins
> > 0 swap pager pages paged in
> > 0 swap pager pageouts
> > 0 swap pager pages paged out
> > 8688 vnode pager pageins
> > 120478 vnode pager pages paged in
> > 322 vnode pager pageouts
> > 3527 vnode pager pages paged out
> > 3 page daemon wakeups
> > 19153450 pages examined by the page daemon
> > 0 clean page reclamation shortfalls
> > 198910 pages reactivated by the page daemon
> > 502073 copy-on-write faults
> > 9226 copy-on-write optimized faults
> > 27520777 zero fill pages zeroed
> > 24413 zero fill pages prezeroed
> > 1622 intransit blocking page faults
> > 42301697 total VM faults taken
> > 12576 page faults requiring I/O
> > 0 pages affected by kernel thread creation
> > 357307 pages affected by fork()
> > 28026 pages affected by vfork()
> > 0 pages affected by rfork()
> > 30941382 pages freed
> > 89018 pages freed by daemon
> > 13777017 pages freed by exiting processes
> > 470801 pages active
> > 1014759 pages inactive
> > 191320 pages in the laundry queue
> > 234660 pages wired down
> > 96191 pages free
> > 4096 bytes per page
> > 3108988 total name lookups
> > cache hits (93% pos + 4% neg) system 0%
> > per-directory deletions 0%, falsehits 0%, toolong 0%
> >
> > Boot time : 1571414099
> >
> > procs memory page disks
> > faults cpu0 cpu1 cpu2 cpu3 r b w avm
> > fre flt re pi po fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us
> > sy id us sy id us sy id us sy id 0 0 0 31449076 384704
> > 1902 9 0 0 1391 861 0 0 222 15578 5778 12 8 80
> > 14 4 82 14 4 82 14 4 82
> >
> > memory info:
> >
> > real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB)
> > avail memory = 8166465536 (7788 MB)
> >
> > last pid: 92816; load averages: 0.46, 0.66, 0.83 up
> > 0+06:10:37 22:05:36 56 processes: 1 running, 55 sleeping
> >
> > Mem: 1840M Active, 3964M Inact, 747M Laundry, 917M Wired,
> > 474M Buf, 375M Free Swap: 48G Total, 48G Free
> >
> > hw.physmem: 8463925248
> > hw.usermem: 7502598144
> > hw.realmem: 8589934592
> >
> > total used free shared
> > buffers cached Mem: 8030732 3587088
> > 4443644 0 0 0 Swap:
> > 50331644 0 50331644
> >
> > swapinfo:
> >
> > Device 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity
> > /dev/ada0s1b 50331644 0 50331644 0%
> >
> > vmstat:
> >
> > procs memory page disks
> > faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po
> > fr sr ad0 pa0 in sy cs us sy id 1 0 0 31449076
> > 384420 1902 9 0 0 1392 861 0 0 222 15579 5778
> > 14 5 82
> >
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- Raw text -