X-Authentication-Warning: delorie.com: mail set sender to geda-user-bounces using -f
X-Recipient: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Original-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=gmail.com; s=20120113;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :cc:content-type;
        bh=paKF577CjL+DaGWF3PPsES7hS5ZGpf1jLg3lBNu3KCA=;
        b=jxmI1L26VsJQVp5L2x6sTJw86acEOLx8Luhq+t5MI4vRtEiaXHyzb1tOqBBiWU6TD5
         gkOrstmj3ZoqAuDXWD7ikiOwjIAyAme3+DEXncdk+riX49z6W5XaAtIRPnFVjZzhNrQy
         RM2eaqzdLwlhvbncWJ8xvbOWH/sD8NpNq+7MEIcckRCfVbhLfHJ0eJK07Z86hfLZtHco
         lqUgHQ/bmyrYM9u7nsW2IccqrEHXs7Zz7oVzFc3YlBLrVAnnFM5HEMJCf40XA2Ru6jGv
         4LCJqsNtiQ3SoSb7l0zlFAmLX8wGo2ZfIdRzhXRZOkyN1fjgQWyzbeyouSpSYyp7Kkhi
         e6OA==
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.50.108.7 with SMTP id hg7mr6598635igb.37.1434003915364; Wed,
 10 Jun 2015 23:25:15 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <218C63C4-B2B5-4DFB-A995-B170E7591B6F@noqsi.com>
References: <CAOP4iL2RenFM9yxVhc_fkmPmzBa9iXRFH2uUvfEuGC_qMY17Jw AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<CAPDh1To9cjhR-zJpsJCL68cWiSTMQDJ-jvnrGLwR_-qp6+r+Tg AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<20150608222056 DOT 10601 DOT qmail AT stuge DOT se>
	<CAPDh1TqwQOtyh0jQjEMzF-pg6wzXVJ2rSCZEHh7-xvUqNWRdLQ AT mail DOT gmail DOT com>
	<218C63C4-B2B5-4DFB-A995-B170E7591B6F AT noqsi DOT com>
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:25:14 +0200
Message-ID: <CAPDh1TpiiD32jB1Xgjx4f6tBQJWCQ77A4S0aV9z-ZTMzH=Hn9A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [geda-user] Any news about FOSS EDA coordination? Import/export,
 common file format
From: "timofonic timofonic (timofonic AT gmail DOT com)" <geda-user AT delorie DOT com>
To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Cc: kicad-users AT yahoogroups DOT com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122f998fb62630518380d39
Reply-To: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
Errors-To: nobody AT delorie DOT com
X-Mailing-List: geda-user AT delorie DOT com
X-Unsubscribes-To: listserv AT delorie DOT com
Precedence: bulk

--089e0122f998fb62630518380d39
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I agree about LaTeX, LO Writer has poor math support too. They thinked in
average joe and forgot about hardcore geeks such as engineers.

But EDA has a lot more specific niche, maybe it could be easier to give a
consensus.

OpenDocument issue is because Microsoft boycotted it with OOXML, impossible
to implement properly because incomplete and cert messy documentation, it
had too mant quirks. They implement OpenDocument in a buggy way, it's part
of their monopoly strategy.

More people complain about file formats...
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3D43276.0
On Jun 10, 2015 6:34 PM, "John Doty" <jpd AT noqsi DOT com> wrote:

>
> On Jun 9, 2015, at 2:53 PM, timofonic timofonic (timofonic AT gmail DOT com) <
> geda-user AT delorie DOT com> wrote:
>
> Something similar to OpenDocument but for electronics.
>
>
> But OpenDocument is not universal: it doesn=E2=80=99t serve the LaTeX and=
 troff
> communities. And geda-gaf, in particular, is well adapted to *automated*
> data-product generation, like LaTeX but unlike the manual GUI tools that
> use OpenDocument. Indeed, the makefiles for my LaTeX documents drag in da=
ta
> from geda-gaf.
>
> The other issue is that some parts of the flow are easier to standardize
> and adapt than others. Netlists and BOMs are collections of simple
> =E2=80=9Crelations" in database jargon. Translating to/from a standardize=
d format
> is a routine database manipulation job. But schematics and layouts are no=
t
> simple abstractions, and different tools encode them in fundamentally
> different ways.
>
> There was once an effort to do this: EDIF. A lot of people and companies
> put a lot of effort into it, and it failed. But an effort that concentrat=
ed
> on the feasible parts of the problem, netlists and BOMs, might succeed.
>
> John Doty              Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.
>
> http://www.noqsi.com/
>
> jpd AT noqsi DOT com
>
>
>

--089e0122f998fb62630518380d39
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p dir=3D"ltr">I agree about LaTeX, LO Writer has poor math support too. Th=
ey thinked in average joe and forgot about hardcore geeks such as engineers=
.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">But EDA has a lot more specific niche, maybe it could be eas=
ier to give a consensus.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">OpenDocument issue is because Microsoft boycotted it with OO=
XML, impossible to implement properly because incomplete and cert messy doc=
umentation, it had too mant quirks. They implement OpenDocument in a buggy =
way, it&#39;s part of their monopoly strategy.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">More people complain about file formats...<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3D43276.0">http://w=
ww.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3D43276.0</a></p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 10, 2015 6:34 PM, &quot;John Doty&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jpd AT noqsi DOT com">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=3D=
"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-=
word"><br><div><div>On Jun 9, 2015, at 2:53 PM, timofonic timofonic (<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:timofonic AT gmail DOT com" target=3D"_blank">timofonic AT gmail DOT com</a>)=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:geda-user AT delorie DOT com" target=3D"_blank">geda-user AT d=
elorie.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><span style=3D=
"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal=
;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:sta=
rt;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;=
float:none;display:inline!important">Something similar to OpenDocument but =
for electronics.</span></blockquote><br></div><div>But OpenDocument is not =
universal: it doesn=E2=80=99t serve the LaTeX and troff communities. And ge=
da-gaf, in particular, is well adapted to *automated* data-product generati=
on, like LaTeX but unlike the manual GUI tools that use OpenDocument. Indee=
d, the makefiles for my LaTeX documents drag in data from geda-gaf.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>The other issue is that some parts of the flow are easier=
 to standardize and adapt than others. Netlists and BOMs are collections of=
 simple =E2=80=9Crelations&quot; in database jargon. Translating to/from a =
standardized format is a routine database manipulation job. But schematics =
and layouts are not simple abstractions, and different tools encode them in=
 fundamentally different ways.</div><div><br></div><div>There was once an e=
ffort to do this: EDIF. A lot of people and companies put a lot of effort i=
nto it, and it failed. But an effort that concentrated on the feasible part=
s of the problem, netlists and BOMs, might succeed.</div><br><div>
<span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px 0px;color:rgb(0,=
0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:no=
rmal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align=
:auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0=
px"><p style=3D"margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" si=
ze=3D"3" style=3D"font:12.0px Helvetica">John Doty<span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<span>=C2=A0</span><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0<span>=C2=A0</span><=
/span></span>Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd.</font></p><p style=3D"margin:0.0px 0.0px=
 0.0px 0.0px"><a href=3D"http://www.noqsi.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.noqsi.com/</a></p><p style=3D"margin:0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face=
=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12.0px Helvetica"><a href=3D"mailto=
:jpd AT noqsi DOT com" target=3D"_blank">jpd AT noqsi DOT com</a></font></p><br></span>
</div>
<br></div></blockquote></div>

--089e0122f998fb62630518380d39--